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TM: "Well, winning hasn't been a problem the last two years. We've won. I think we lacked, with the previous owner, money to spend on advertising.

The time we did spend money on advertising, we succeeded. When we played the Russians a few years ago, it was on TV. There were commercials two months before that New Year's Eve game. We have 11,000 people in the building. I don't care if we were playing the Russians or not.

So we might not have 11,000 people. But if we promote on TV... The previous owner gave us absolutely no money to spend on advertising for print, radio, or TV, and that's how people get the word out. That's why huge companies spend millions and millions of dollars on TV ads, because once you see it, it goes into your brain. It works.' Let's go take a drive down to the game.'

I think that's a Doug Frank's commitment to this team. The previous owner [Dr. Michael Plaman] didn't have much of a commitment to this city. He seemed to be more in love with Shrieveport than with his own hometown [Doc Plaman owned both the Scorpions and the Shrieveport Mudbugs, and still owns the Mudbugs franchise - ed.].

And again, it comes down to loyalty. We weren't allowed to start the finals here because Shrieveport didn't have ice. We figured it out, who was behind that. He wanted to make money. He had no respect for us, the team with the better record. We had to start on the road. It could have affected our not winning the championship. [The team] felt there was no loyalty.

Doug Frank comes in here and says 'I'm going to put in big screens.' They're there. 'I'm going to put in corporate boxes.' They're there. Yes, the ticket prices went up, but they're justified.

He's going to replace all the glass. Last year, there was a piece of real glass, a piece of Plexiglas, a piece scratched. Glass that doesn't fit. It was a mess. He's putting in all new glass. Higher glass, on top of that, for more protection of the fans. Now with a little higher glass, it's going to save a few people from getting stitches.

He's made that commitment to us."

MLN: There's a lot of talk in Albuquerque about developing the new baseball stadium. Most of the sports and entertainment venues in the city are old. Do you think that Albuquerque needs a new indoor event arena?

TM: "Eventually we do. But you have to command the State Fair for what they've done. I was here five years ago. That was a real scary building. For now, for a minor league team, it's a great building. It's too big for [the CHL.] It's too big for the American League. Nobody's going to draw 10,000 or 9000. Even Oklahoma City.

'Well, we draw 8000 fans a game.' [They'd say] Who cares? The rink you play in is 14,999 seats. And now you're playing in a new one that's 20 grand! Even if you put 10,000 people in that thing it's going to be empty.

Same with Shrieveport 12,400 seats. It just doesn't work at this level. So were happy with Tingley. The new seating, the new lighting, the sound system. The corporate boxes are going to add a lot. The big screens are going to add countless dollars for us corporate-wise. And for the fans, the entertainment. [Mr. Frank] for is going to make it an event. It's not going to be just 'Let's go watch a hockey game.' You want to go because it's going to be a whole package."

MLN: You were largely responsible for the affiliation with the IHL Chicago Wolves last season. Word has it that you were instrumental in the deal with the NHL Canadiens and their AHL affiliate the Citadelles. What does that do for the face of the Scorpions team for this season?

TM: "I had a lot of help from Pat Dunn. I'm very fortunate to have Patrick as my General Manager. Because of his background as a player, and his contacts with his dad, who was with the Vancouver Canucks in the 70's and early 80's, and him being from Quebec, he knows a lot of people. He opened up a lot of doors.

Would I have been successful in getting Quebec? I don't know. With Pat Dunn, it definitely created that opening, and support. It's brought on Utah, like I said. We worked as a team. He called. I called. And sent faxes. The file's about this thick. But you know what? It paid off, and we're very proud of it, and we're proud of our affiliation with the Montreal Canadiens and the Quebec Citadelles."

MLN Follow-up: "That's the first time that anyone in the former WPHL, now CHL has had a linear tie straight to the NHL franchise as a developmental team, isn't it?"

TM: "Austin will have their tie with Houston [the Aeros], but I don't think they'll have any direct tie with the [Minnesota] Wild. It's just Houston doing a favorite to Austin because of their relationship and with Hughes and Dave Barr."

MLN Follow-up: Do you think that hockey needs a more structured system, like the one in baseball?

TM: "First, all of the owners at the AA level will have to weed out the weak sisters. I still think we have a couple in this league..."

MLN Follow-up: You wouldn't want to tell us who they are?

TM: "I'm sure you can figure it out. They hurt the financial credibility of the league. I think, then, there needs to be that refocus. I think this league has made that commitment towards a refocus on development.

If you see growth in hockey now, you see it at the tier-two junior leagues, or in the major A league's. Why? Because there's prospects. People are coming out to watch the prospects.

The USHL is in Tulsa. They're going to battle with Tulsa [the Drillers] for fans. And their billing it as 'Why go see has-beens when you can see prospects?"

Well, if we were in Tulsa right now, we have prospects. We can say that. Can Tulsa? No. So they're going to have trouble to compete [with the USHL.].

So I think that structure has to be there where we are AA, to be there to develop. Are we entertainment, or are we a league that's going to develop?"

MLN Follow-up: Do you think that you're leading the way for this league to develop those good prospects?

TM: "I'm forcing teams, but looking at some of the signings in this league!

Fort Worth just signed a lot of retreads that have been through the league. Corpus just went to Monroe and Tupelo and raided their players. They didn't go out and find new guys. These guys have already been in the league.

So they're in that no man's land. They're not rookies. They're not veterans. Same thing with Shreveport. They've signed guys from Tupelo and Monroe.

I've done that with two guys. Steers, but he's a player/assistant coach, and Chris Richards, coming out of the Central Hockey League, Macon.

For the most part, I went after young kids. Kids that I'm a little nervous about, because yes, they have got credentials, but can they turn that into a pro game, and be competitive and effective as a pro player? We'll find out."

MLN Follow-up: When you recruit these young players who have dreams of the NHL, what do you tell them?

TM: "Basically I tell them it's up to them. We will make the commitment to promote them, to play the next level, but the only way you can do that is on your performance.

You have to keep going every night. You have to work hard; you have to be focused; you have to be committed, and perform. You know, guys who are under contract, they're one step closer.

Guys like [Jonathan] St. Louis, going to Providence [for camp], they need toughness on the wing. He's 20 years old, and they need that big tough guy on the wing that can play. He might make that team. Or he might make that great impression where they're gonna call him up. And that's how he makes it.

You know, guys have come out of the East Coast Hockey League and played in the National Hockey League. We want to be the first team and this league to do the same thing. We had a few in the old WPHL that have made it to the American League. But no one's really come close to the NHL."

MLN Follow-up: Do you think, at this point, that there is skepticism at the NHL level that this league can produce players who can make the cut in the NHL?

TM:" Well, out of this league, yes, but that of the East Coast League, no, because they send high prospects, especially goaltenders, to the East Coast League. And at our level, there's doubt, because they don't know.

Yes, we've made the commitment to younger players, but, 'prove it to us.'

The only way to prove it to them is to start at the American League level, develop players for them and move up. I think that we're going in the right direction."

MLN Follow-up: So you think that the CHL rules requiring more new players is a good thing?

TM: "Yeah, I think so. We're copying the East Coast League mentality, and if they're successful at getting guys to the NHL and having good American League players coming out of their league, and they can be solid contributors, well why not copy their set up?

What's it going to take for them to believe in us? A guy a like a David Conacchia that can be a regular in the American League. You get a Quebec and Montreal saying 'You know what? They promoted that kid, and they were right. These people know what they're doing. We believe in them. Let's send them two or three other guys, or agents.'

[And they would say:] 'You got him? He's a good player. He's in the American League now.'

I'm not going to be chasing them. They're going to be calling us. 'Hey, I've got a good kid. Have you got any two-ways available? We've heard good things about your program.'

Scott Meyers, his agent said 'We hear great things about your program.' And that's what it takes. Bottom line."

MLN: You were a two-time CHL all-star. You were a two-time WPHL all-star. You played your last game with the Detroit Vipers of the IHL. What didn’t you achieve as a player that you would have liked to achieve?

TM:" I think I made a mistake when I was in training camp with the Quebec Nordiques in 1989. They were a very weak team. I was getting sent to Halifax, and I was going to be there at least until the end of November. Then they were going to make a decision.

I decided to go with the security and go play in Sweden. I regret that. Not giving that a real chance.

That year, they went through so many goalies that I thought I was better than at training camp when I competed against them. I worked a lot harder than they did, and they had an opportunity to play in the National Hockey League. Would I have gotten the opportunity? I don’t know. So that’s something I regret. Not playing in a higher level.

The only game that I did play [with the IHL Vipers] I had a great game. I had thirty-three saves. I was first star. I was tired as hell, because I was more nervous than anything else, but it was such an easier game to play. I made the first save and I didn’t have to worry about the second or third shot most of the time. Sure, I played on a good team, with the Vipers, but they were depleted with injuries.

Just to be in that atmosphere, at 34 years old, I’m saying to myself, ‘one time I had the chance and I didn’t take it.’

There was another time in Tulsa where I got called up to Houston [to the Aeros] and some coach didn’t tell me about it. And another goalie got called up, and he stayed the remainder of the year.”

MLN Follow-up: That must have hurt…

TM: “Yeah, it did. Those are my regrets. In terms of my career at this level, I was fortunate enough to be a pretty good player, I played a lot. I wasn’t a journeyman. I was traded to Abilene. It wasn’t something I wanted. It became a personal issue between the coach and myself. He felt it was best for him to move me. It cost him his job. Abilene could have been excellent, because I recruited all of those guys."

MLN Follow-up: Well, that’s what you’re known for. You’re one of the best recruiters in minor league hockey. Do you think that’s a key strength to being a good minor league coach?

TM: "It’s persistence. You look at guys that succeed. It’s being on the phone. It’s calling. It’s badgering, sometimes. You call them every day for two weeks. I called Bill Armstrong in Providence every day. ‘Bill, I’m sorry to bother you…” That’s how I start.

But it got me Jonathan St. Louis in training camp. I don’t even know who Bill Armstrong is. Never met him, but I know he’s an Assistant Coach there, and I hope he’ll open a door. I got that young man into a camp that he has a chance to make it. That’s what it is.

It’s the same thing with the Dallas Stars. I’ve got to call them every day. “Hey, will you take my goalie at training camp?” That’s how you do business, and they like it. You might be bothering them at times, but, at the end of the day they say, you know what? This guy has a commitment to the game. He’s trying to do the best he can for his team, and his players, to try and get these guys in camp. They respect that."

MLN: This is your third season as the coach of the Scorps. What do you see for yourself in the future? Do you keep coaching? Do you want to move up to a higher level of the game? Are you still interested in management?

TM: "I like coaching. It’s fun building a team, and watching it develop and compete. Going up to the next level? There’s so many horror stories.

It’s such a different world because now you’re given twenty-five players or whatever. If some of those players aren’t good enough to play in the American League then you’re stuck with them because they’re under contract, and upper management in the NHL is saying, ‘Hey, develop them!’ You could be gone because they gave you a poor team.

At this level, you control pretty much all of it. With affiliation that might change a bit, but, for the most part, of your eighteen-man roster, you control about seventy-five percent of it.

I prefer this level, to tell you the truth. I don’t need to be in the National Hockey League. Butch Goring just took the job in Alaska. He’s a guy who strived to be a National Hockey League coach. He’s had many opportunities.

He’s going to go up there, and he’s going to say, ‘This is great! This is fun! These kids are great, they’re enthusiastic, they want to work, they play for really nothing and they come to the rink and they play three games in three nights. This is hockey.’ If you look at it, they play for the love of the game.

So I’m more than happy to be here. I’m very content. I’m not one for change. I like stability, as much as you can in this business. This is a pretty stable job. Especially with Doug Frank as an owner. There’s nothing wrong with being a minor league coach."

 

Tell us what you think

I'm leaving for Quebec mid September. From there I'll fly can and I go to Utah. I'm sending Peter Ambroziak to Chicago. If Pete knows somebody or Jamie Steer knows somebody, they're going to make the calls and get to those people so I can make the contacts.

I'm going to go to Utah because I want to meet the Dallas Stars contingent. You know, they give us an opportunity to have maybe two guys in camp. They said they want to work with us because of proximity.

We're creating the network."

MLN: The league has changed a lot in five years. Do you think that you've had some significant impact on the quality of the players that teams have recruited to the league overall?

TM: "Oh absolutely. You look throughout this league, there's a lot of guys I've recruited."

MLN Follow-up: Do you think that other coaches in the CHL are doing what you're doing to get the CHL up to speed as a developmental league?

TM: "How many other guys are putting in the 12 [or] 13 hour days, you know, on the phone, flying around?

How many guys were at the draft? Just myself and Scott Musket from Shrieveport, after the league requested that [all of the teams] make an effort to be at the NHL draft.

That's what irritates me. People have this perception [about me], but bottom line, it's work. Put the effort in.

Like, in San Angelo, how many coaches have they gone through? Hire a guy that's going to work. Hire a guy that's going to commit.

Amarillo, how many coaches have they gone through? The try to make things work. They've got no budget. You give them the money, and you pay your players on time. I don't know how you expect a new coach to come in and recruit when he knows last year players didn't get paid for five weeks, and the owner cut off their workmen's comp in the summer and guys are injured. You can't do that.

That's where it just irritates me, to see other people... basically comes down to jealousy."

MLN Follow-up: Didn't you have some of the same problems with payroll last year?

TM:"Here we have a clean slate with a new owner, a tremendous owner. A guy a that has the league's focus in mind, which is to be a developmental league."

MLN: You ever think that the CHL is watching you a little more closely than other coaches?

TM: "I'm sure they are. But right now, their focus is turning to 'This guy has really worked to do what we want.' Out of the twelve veterans he only has three returning from last year's team. And you look at my other guys... I brought in quality young guys here with American League potential.

So they were very excited. They flew in for the press conference about the Citadelles-Montreal affiliation. So I think that they have realized that, 'we have to give this guy a chance. He's working to bring in quality players.’ I mean, if you look at my rookie players and other rookie signings in this league, there's no comparison."

MLN: Last year, you took the hit from the league. One ITC reporter even dared you to take a polygraph test. Your job was in jeopardy. How did you deal with all of that personally?

TM: "Well, I just kept coming into work, focusing on getting the team ready. And, even though our team was put into last place, our team never quit. We still tried to win those games. We weren't successful, obviously. And you just stay focused, and you try to have confidence in your abilities as a hockey person, and you focus on something you love, which is hockey. So that's what I did. It worked out.

MLN Follow-up: Do you think, with the new ownership of the Scorpions, and bringing Pat Dunn in as GM, that the league is ready to let you move on?

TM: "We got the right person here to own the team. We've basically cleaned the slate with the league, and now we've rectified ourselves in terms of where we need to go. And I think that's the bottom line."

MLN Follow-up: The interesting thing that we noticed at MLN is that the fans, instead of handing you your head on a platter for costing them a playoff race, largely rallied right behind you. Fans talked you up to the new owner. What do you attribute all that fan loyalty to?

TM:" I think the loyalty I have to the city [Albuquerque]. You know, I've been here five out of six years. One-year I went to play in Abilene, Texas, not of my own decision. That was a Gary Unger trade.

We helped that team [the Aviators] be first overall in the Western Conference. That was the one and half years of their existence that they were a great hockey team."

The Albuquerque fans saw my commitment to the city. The fans saw this is where I wanted to be. This is that kind of community, or state, New Mexico. You show loyalty, and they give it back.

MLN Follow-up: So what is it about New Mexico, about Albuquerque, that keeps bringing you back here? You seem to have a very centered focus around the city.

TM: " I played here. I've lived here. We own homes here. My wife has a great job here. It's a great city to live in, in my opinion. The weather you can't beat. You wake up, and the sun's shining. Those mountains, I mean, you can drive 45 minutes and you're in mountainous area, forests. I mean peace, quiet. Is just that type of town. The people are friendly. You get to know them. And they're loyal. That's the bottom line. I've played in other cities. Tulsa, I thought, was a great place to play. But we just like it here, and this is where we want to make our home."

MLN: The Scorps have built a good, stable corps of hockey fans. You spoke earlier about how you wanted to get it up to the next level, to get it to 7,000 fans. What do you have to do to get to that level? What do you think you have to do to bring fans through the door on a pretty regular basis?

10 With MLN:
Tony
MARTINO

The hardworking, successful, opinionated and controversial coach of the Central Hockey League's New Mexico Scorpions talks about recruiting, building the network of ties that makes the CHL useful to the NHL, his vision of an AHL destiny for his team, what makes a good owner, and what it takes to get players to the next level.

["10 With MLN" is a series of special one-on-one interviews with the luminaries of minor league sports. 10 questions, plus follow-ups, are asked of a major figure in minor league sports, or an uncommon player.]

MLN: Your intensity on the ice is legendary. Off the ice, some people say he's a nice guy, others say you just hide it better in street clothes. How do you manage that competitive spirit? Does it affect everything that you do , or can you for just focus on the hockey?

TM: "When I set my mind to something I want it done properly. In life, you always want to come out doing the right thing, so you focus on certain things. So I guess I have a focus on winning. That's the objective of most coaches.

I strive to be the best I can be. Some people take it the wrong way, as maybe arrogance or cockiness. I'm just trying to do what I feel is best for me as a person in the hockey world, for this hockey team and the this franchise."

MLN Follow-up: How do you find the motivation to keep up that level of focus?

"Motivation is an internal thing for me. I motivate myself by trying to do the best job that I can. Sometimes the blinders go on, and there's a little too much intensity, but that's the way it goes. Sometimes it gets me in trouble. It's just the way I'm made. It's been my make up since I was a little kid. I always had pretty good focus."

MLN: Both through your personality and your talent, you've been one of the most instrumental figures in developing the Scorpions franchise, and keeping it alive. In your ‘best of all possible worlds’ scenario, where you want to see the Scorpions in five years?

TM:" I'd like to see them here [in Albuquerque]. Minor-league hockey is a very difficult business financially. I'd like to see it prosper where the average attendance is 7000 a game. [That] would be ideal for this level.

Now with the merger of the American League (AHL) [and the International Hockey League (IHL)], we are the perfect area to be an American League team one day. Utah, if they stay [in the AHL], you know, five years down the road, Houston.... We'd be a good fit for the Western Conference.

I think the bottom line is to see us continue to be one of the powerhouses of the Central Hockey League. Constant in terms of always being there, in the run for the championship, and developing talent.

We want to be considered a team that develops players for the next level, be it [for] the American League, or, one day, the National Hockey League. That will make us very proud, from [Scorps owner] Doug Frank down to [GM] Pat Dunn and myself. That's what we're here to do. Entertain the fans? Yes. But at the same time, we're in the hockey business, and we want to be a feeder to the teams at the next level."

MLN: You're the guy that people either love or hate, or love to hate. Why do you think that you draw so much more attention from fans all over the league, when most of them can't even remember some of the visiting coaches' names?

TM: "I don't know. They should all give me a percentage of their ticket sales. [Smiles.] Just the fact that we win. Just the fact that coaches in this league, half of them, don't work that hard.

There's a lot of jealousies that come into play. You look at my lineup right now. Everybody said: '[He] can't recruit young talent. He only relies on veterans.'

Well, I have seven rookies, all league guys. We have an American League affiliation. We're the only team in this league to have an official one.

Some teams are working on working agreements. Working agreements [are] a smokescreen. All you're doing is getting a kid a tryout in a camp. I've got Providence , I've got Houston, I've got Utah, I've got Quebec City. I might have Rochester. I could have Hamilton. I could have every player on my team have a working agreement and going to camp. I mean, you're just buying a kid a spot to get a chance to showcase his skills. Out of all my players, I have 11 out of 18 players going to training camp somewhere in the American. How many teams can say that?"

MLN Follow-up: So what do you think made it possible for you to get an affiliation with Montreal and Quebec that other teams aren't doing?

TM: "Through perseverance, work. We put the effort in to get [an affiliation]. We've had the energy to do it. It took a lot of work. It took a lot of money, to go to the draft, and phone calls, and back and forth. We've accomplished that, and I think there are a lot of coaches in this league who are saying 'How did they do it? '

That's what other coaches in this league or fans are upset with. Because I'm working. I'm working to create a network. And they want to know how you get these players. Well, I'm persistent. I'm on the phone. I've been on the road.